We've discussed naval aviation for our hypothetical navy quite extensively, but the discussion isn't over. Here's the third installment.

Davy Jones: Even if we created our own STOVL fighter, would we still want a CATOBAR or STOBAR system? We'd still need to get some other planes in the air, wouldn't we?

Bean: No. To some extent, STOVL can be thought of as moving the cost from the carrier to the planes for a given level of capability. Flying STOVL planes off of a CATOBAR carrier gives us the worst of both worlds. We'd have to go for helicopter AWACS, and it denies us the opportunity for other fixed-wing support aircraft. I'm not sure we need fixed-wing ASW, but it would be nice to have a tanker. Maybe a drone, maybe manned. I don't think John's idea is such a bad one, although I want a carrier big enough we don't need to go for it.

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The biggest challenge of war at sea has always been figuring out where the enemy is and controlling your forces against him. For centuries, options were very limited. Your sensor was a man at the top of the mast, maybe with a telescope, and your only option for communication over any distance was signal flags. The world ended at the horizon, or maybe a little further if someone else was signalling to you. Information traveled at the speed of ships, which meant that it was next to impossible to build up a useful picture of the movements and intentions of an enemy before it became obsolete.

A sailing ship signalling with flags¹

This began to change when the telecommunications revolution kicked off. One notable example of the shift that resulted was a change in British press policy. During the Napoleonic Wars, it was common for troop movements to be publicly announced when they happened. This was still policy at the start of the Crimean War, but it was soon realized that the telegraph meant that the news of the troops departure reached the Russians long before the troops did, and the policy was changed.

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It's time once again for the biweekly open thread. Talk about anything you want, including things not naval-related, so long as it isn't culture war.

The security certificate has been updated, so life should be back to normal on that end.

A while ago, I discussed my ride from San Diego to LA on the USS America, in preparation for the first LA Fleet Week. Obviously, I couldn't miss Fleet Week itself, which was Labor Day weekend. Besides the fact that they were screaming for tour guides due to the expected crowds, Iowa had tickets for tours. I wanted to visit the Arleigh Burke class destroyer Wayne E. Meyer, which we'd passed on our way in.

Wayne E. Meyer²

It was the busiest day I saw during my time as a tour guide, and the entire event was a huge success. The line to get into the Fleet Week pavilion, which included gift shops for the visiting ships, a STEM expo, and a bunch of other booths, went all the way from the pier to Harbor Boulevard, and the line for Iowa was nearly as long. I don't remember how many visitors we had that day, but it was a record.

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When Andrew Hunter came through Oklahoma City, I asked him if he'd been to Turner Joy, in Bremerton, near where he lived. He admitted to having never heard of it, so I decided to put together a list of museum ships in the US. It's sorted by state, then city, so it should be fairly easy to get an idea of where the nearest ones to you are. I apologize for not being able to provide links to the ships directly, but they can be found in the Wikipedia list I got the data from. The Historic Naval Ships Association is also an excellent resource.

Anyway, I highly encourage you to go and support these ships. A museum ship is also a fiscal black hole, and we should all try to preserve them for the future. I've put asterisks next to ships I've visited personally.

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We've previously looked at the process by which the first ironclads developed into the dreadnought, and further into the super-dreadnought with guns larger than 12". The next stage in British dreadnought development was driven by a man who later became one of the 20th century's greatest statesmen. In October 1911, as the Iron Dukes were being ordered, a young, ambitious politician named Winston Churchill became First Lord of the Admiralty.

HMS Queen Elizabeth, 1916

Churchill, for all of his great virtues as Prime Minister during the Second World War, had serious vices as First Lord. He was greatly influenced by Jackie Fisher, now retired, who had never quite given up on the battleship/battlecruiser fusion designs first proposed as a direct follow-on to Dreadnought. He proposed³ a ship with full battleship armor and a speed of 28 kts. Fisher also argued for an increase in gun caliber to 15", which Churchill agreed to.

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The first shots of the Second World War were fired by a battleship. The German pre-dreadnought Schleswig-Holstein signaled the start of the German assault on the Polish supply depot of Westerplatte by opening fire. Commandoes carried aboard the ship attempted to assault the base, but were repulsed, and the Poles held out for a full week in the face of heavy German attacks, including bombardment from Schleswig-Holstein.

A camera crew filming Schleswig-Holstein's bombardment of Westerplatte

A total of six German battleships served during WWII, the most diverse mix of ships of any of the major powers.⁴ Two, Schleswig-Holstein and Schlesien, were veterans of Jutland, built to designs pre-dating Dreadnought. The next pair, Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, were among the handful of interwar capital ships that didn't approach the 35,000 ton limit of the Washington Naval Treaty. Armed with 3 triple 11" turrets, they were designed to fight the French Dunkerque class, and proved quite effective during the war. Bismarck is probably the most famous battleship in history⁵ and her sister Tirpitz is also well-known. Possibly the most powerful battleships ever completed in Europe, mostly due to their designer's blatant disregard for treaty limits, these were essentially modernized versions of the WWI Bayern class, with 4 twin 15" turrets, a speed of about 30 kts, and an armor scheme of WWI vintage, instead of the all-or-nothing schemes used in the allied treaty battleships. Read more...

This is a guest post by DismalPseudoscience, who visited Mikasa in March 2018.⁶

Mikasa in March 2018. Statue of Admiral Togo in the foreground.⁷

Website

On May 27th, 1905, the Combined Fleet of the Imperial Japanese Navy utterly destroyed the Russian Second Pacific Squadron in the Battle of Tsushima, thus deciding the Russo-Japanese War. The commander of the Combined Fleet was Admiral Togo Heihachiro. At Tsushima, like at the earlier battles of Port Arthur and the Yellow Sea, his flagship was the battleship Mikasa.

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After their victory at Pungdo, the Japanese pursued the Chinese on land, defeating them at Seonghwan. The Chinese response had all the speed and decision that the late Qing Dynasty was famous for, and the Beiyang Fleet spent all of August sitting in port. The Japanese continued to pour troops into Korea, and the Chinese recognized the need to reinforce their garrison, which was only possible by sea. However, they were unable to gather their troops quickly enough to prevent a second defeat at Pyongyang, which drove their forces back to the Yalu River.

Ding Ruchang, commander of the Beiyang Fleet, had intended to fight the Japanese at sea and defeat their fleet before he took the troops to Korea, but the defeat at Pyongyang forced him to abandon this plan. Instead, he would convoy the troopships with his entire force, which was considerable. His flagship, the ironclad battleship Dingyuan, and her sister Zhenyuan formed the core of his force, supported by three smaller ironclads, five cruisers and four small vessels. The Japanese under Itō Sukeyuki had split their force into two squadrons of four protected cruisers⁸ each, along with a quartet of support vessels.⁹

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It's time for our biweekly open thread. Talk about anything you want, including things completely unrelated to the blog's subject matter, so long as it's not culture war.

And another reminder (flogging a dead horse, I know) about the meetup I have scheduled for the Salem on Sunday.

I'd also like to highlight a question Johan Larson asked on a recent SSC open thread, about how you would move the Iowa from LA to Denver. The resulting thread was very interesting.